Count me in also. I would love to help make a public network happen in the Twin Cities. FYI I am on the east side of St. Paul (Woodbury). - John -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of tcwug-list-request at tcwug.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:46 AM To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: tcwug-list digest, Vol 1 #61 - 11 msgs Send tcwug-list mailing list submissions to tcwug-list at tcwug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tcwug-list-request at tcwug.org You can reach the person managing the list at tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tcwug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Scott Dier) 2. RE: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Mike Bresnahan) 3. Re: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Richard T Nechanicky) 4. Re: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Matthew S. Hallacy) 5. RE: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Mike Bresnahan) 6. interest in an actual community wireless network? (steve ulrich) 7. RE: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Mike Bresnahan) 8. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Jack Vanatta) 9. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Andy Warner) 10. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Jeff Lehman) 11. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (steve ulrich) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:28:05 -0500 From: Scott Dier <dieman at ringworld.org> To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org * Richard T Nechanicky <v0key at yahoo.com> [020427 09:03]: > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area? If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend a day driving around the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to look around with Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked. -- Scott Dier <dieman at ringworld.org> http://www.ringworld.org/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah at visi.com> To: <tcwug-list at tcwug.org> Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:53:35 -0500 Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Concerning kismet... I can't get it to work reliably with my prism2.5 card. To make it work at all I have to run 'prism2_monitor <channel>' on the channel I want to sniff on. It will then sniff on the channel I select, but no others. If I run the script and specify a new channel, it will start sniffing on the new channel, but stop on the first channel. Therefore, I have to manually cycle through all the channels. Additionally, it sometimes stops working on all channels and I have to restart card services via '/etc/init.d/pcmcia restart'. What gives? I am using: kernel 2.4.7-10 Redhat 7.2 kismet 1.4.2 pcmcia-cs 3.1.33 wlan-ng 0.1.10 Linksys WPC11 v2.5 Dell Inspiron 3200 PII 266Mhz Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org]On > Behalf Of Scott Dier > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:28 AM > To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? > > > * Richard T Nechanicky <v0key at yahoo.com> [020427 09:03]: > > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of > > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area? > > If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend a day driving around > the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to look around with > Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked. > > -- > Scott Dier <dieman at ringworld.org> http://www.ringworld.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard T Nechanicky <v0key at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Let me know when you get up and running (v0key at yahoo.com)...I have covered the NE side of the cities pretty well... Thanks, Rich --- Scott Dier <dieman at ringworld.org> wrote: > * Richard T Nechanicky <v0key at yahoo.com> [020427 > 09:03]: > > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory > of > > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area? > > If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend > a day driving around > the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to > look around with > Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked. > > -- > Scott Dier <dieman at ringworld.org> > http://www.ringworld.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:01:17 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" <poptix at techmonkeys.org> To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 11:53:35AM -0500, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > Concerning kismet... I can't get it to work reliably with my prism2.5 card. > To make it work at all I have to run 'prism2_monitor <channel>' on the > channel I want to sniff on. It will then sniff on the channel I select, but > no others. If I run the script and specify a new channel, it will start > sniffing on the new channel, but stop on the first channel. Therefore, I > have to manually cycle through all the channels. Additionally, it sometimes > stops working on all channels and I have to restart card services via > '/etc/init.d/pcmcia restart'. What gives? > > I am using: > kernel 2.4.7-10 > Redhat 7.2 > kismet 1.4.2 > pcmcia-cs 3.1.33 > wlan-ng 0.1.10 > Linksys WPC11 v2.5 > Dell Inspiron 3200 PII 266Mhz > > Mike > This is because Kismet doesn't do any channel hopping itself, you need to use either the included scripts (prism2_hopper, etc) or run something like prismstumbler in the background that hops channels. This is all in the documentation, kismet is a great program. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah at visi.com> To: <tcwug-list at tcwug.org> Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > This is all in the documentation, kismet is a great program. Where is the documentation? All I have is a README and I didn't spot anything on the website. Did I overlook something? Mike --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:17:21 -0500 From: steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org> To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org all- i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would seem from the archives) was really done about it. i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in the twin cities area. since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something about it. is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up. i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and integration with other WCNs. any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public wireless access). -- steve ulrich sulrich at botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah at visi.com> To: <tcwug-list at tcwug.org> Subject: RE: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:25:52 -0500 Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Sounds like fun. I'm a wireless newbie, but I am eager to learn and willing help out as I can. Mike Bresnahan > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org]On > Behalf Of steve ulrich > Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:17 AM > To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? > > > > all- > > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would > seem from the archives) was really done about it. > > i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and > several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston > area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in > the twin cities area. > > since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a > living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something > about it. > > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up. > > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and > integration with other WCNs. > > any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for > interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and > administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this > on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless > access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there > is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a > meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public > wireless access). > > > > > -- > steve ulrich sulrich at botwerks.org > PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC > _______________________________________________ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Jack Vanatta" <jrv at scc.net> To: <tcwug-list at tcwug.org> Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:48:15 -0500 Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Yes, I would like that, and be willing to help. I have been in communication with the people at www.personaltelco.net (Portland, OR) about this very idea. My public access point is listed on their node map. ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve ulrich" <sulrich at botwerks.org> To: <tcwug-list at tcwug.org> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:17 AM Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? > > all- > > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would > seem from the archives) was really done about it. > > i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and > several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston > area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in > the twin cities area. > > since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a > living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something > about it. > > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up. > > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and > integration with other WCNs. > > any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for > interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and > administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this > on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless > access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there > is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a > meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public > wireless access). > > > > > -- > steve ulrich sulrich at botwerks.org > PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:20:21 -0500 From: Andy Warner <andyw at pobox.com> To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org steve ulrich wrote: > [...] > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would > seem from the archives) was really done about it. Ack. > [...] > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up. Count me in. > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and > integration with other WCNs. I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver (http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards, so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a very practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases, hacking the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another potential option. I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture. I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area, given the flat terrain and low population density. However, providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me. I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent Silver cards were upgraded to Gold. -- andyw at pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:32:30 -0500 To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org From: Jeff Lehman <jeff at digitalguy.net> Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org --=======2BCF50C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-21ADEFD; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sounds like a good deal. I live in NE minneapolis also; near central and st. anthony pkwy. I'm pretty much a newbie to 802.11 but I'd be interested in doing what I can to contribute to any kind of network we set up. A TCWUG meeting is definately overdue :) Jeff At 11:17 AM 4/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: >all- > >i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently >finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the >discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest >in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would >seem from the archives) was really done about it. > >i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and >several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston >area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in >the twin cities area. > >since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a >living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something >about it. > >is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting >and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this >time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public >access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up. > >i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to >real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems >to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite >willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and >integration with other WCNs. > >any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for >interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and >administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this >on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless >access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there >is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a >meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public >wireless access). > > > > >-- >steve ulrich sulrich at botwerks.org >PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list at tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002 --=======2BCF50C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-21ADEFD Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002 --=======2BCF50C7=======-- --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:37:48 -0500 From: steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org> To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network? Reply-To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Apr 28, 2002), Andy Warner was madly tapping out: > steve ulrich wrote: > > [...] > > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently > > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the > > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest > > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would > > seem from the archives) was really done about it. > > Ack. > > > [...] > > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting > > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this > > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public > > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up. > > Count me in. excellent! > > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to > > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems > > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite > > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and > > integration with other WCNs. > > I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver > (http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards, > so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a very > practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases, hacking > the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another > potential option. i just recently download the sputnik stuff. i haven't burned the iso yet and taken a look at it? any thoughts on it? i'm a bit confused as to where they seem to be taking this in the long run. the goals of the nocat folks as well as the seattle wireless folks are quite clear. i don't think the TCs is a good location for the seattle folks goals but an organized co-op type venture is quite appealing to me. > I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with > as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to > build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut > from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding > hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture. > > I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide > any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area, > given the flat terrain and low population density. However, > providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable > configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like > Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me. i think that you're dead on here. i don't hold out much hope for achieving coverage anything like i've been able to observe in the downtown boston or san francisco areas. these areas have sufficient population density and interesting terrain to be able to engage in such activities. quite simply - i'd like to see a forum for doing show and tells, assisting local businesses (restaurants, coffee shops, libraries, etc) to provide reciprocal services and/or access points, group discounts on gear, books, conference fees, etc. i'd also like to be able setup an access point, share a portion of my wirelines b/w with the public, share a higher percentage of b/w with cooperative members and receive the same treatment in another part of town either at a coffee shop or knowing that i might be covered by someones access point in another part of town. i think that using wired backhauls with tunneling for select traffic is the most pragmatic approach to this. there are alot of people within the twin cities that have caught the wireless bug. some anecdotal evidence from people who have been wardriving seems to back this up. i don't know how many of these people would be willing to open up their access points for public access but i surmise that there are a few and possibly a few who would be willing to setup neighborhood access points to cover their local coffee shop, park/playground, whatever. > I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long > overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a > re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens > before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable > Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent > Silver cards were upgraded to Gold. -- steve ulrich sulrich at botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tcwug-list mailing list tcwug-list at tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list End of tcwug-list Digest