SeattleWireless.com, Inc. (a corporate entity formed 2 years after Seattlewireless.net, the community wireless user group) has managed to censor some postings made to the nocat.net mailing list last March. They are using scare tactics to censor the opinion postings. You can follow the developments on the nocat.net and seattlewireless.net-talk mailing lists. IMHO, SeattleWireless.com's actions amount to corporate censorship of legitimate opinions. Their actions are not commendable what so ever. >X-From_: talk-bounces at seattlewireless.net Sat Nov 8 22:16:33 2003 >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-w5.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] gir.seattlewireless.net #+NN+NR (I,-) >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: <http://umn.edu/mc/s?DO5QuHRYJGkOBr0UdWsc6Ad8BHjgH2JvnLNiTz2tYHGo> >X-Original-To: talk at gir.seattlewireless.net >Delivered-To: talk at gir.seattlewireless.net >From: Rob Flickenger <rob at nocat.net> >Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:15:03 -0800 >To: "Seattle Wireless, Inc." <info at seattlewireless.com> >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) >Cc: SeattleWireless Talk List <talk at seattlewireless.net>, > nocatnet-admin at nocat.net, > nocatnet at lists.nocat.net, > support at nodedb.com >Subject: Re: libelous content on your website >X-BeenThere: talk at seattlewireless.net >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 >Reply-To: SeattleWireless Talk List <talk at seattlewireless.net> >List-Id: SeattleWireless Talk List <talk.seattlewireless.net> >List-Unsubscribe: <http://seattlewireless.net/mailman/listinfo/talk>, > <mailto:talk-request at seattlewireless.net?subject=unsubscribe> >List-Archive: <http://gir.seattlewireless.net/pipermail/talk> >List-Post: <mailto:talk at seattlewireless.net> >List-Help: <mailto:talk-request at seattlewireless.net?subject=help> >List-Subscribe: <http://seattlewireless.net/mailman/listinfo/talk>, > <mailto:talk-request at seattlewireless.net?subject=subscribe> >Sender: talk-bounces at seattlewireless.net >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 > tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, > REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL > version=2.55 >X-Spam-Level: >X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > >Hello, Pano-- > >Thanks for pointing that out. While I doubt that these posts were >actually libelous, they were certainly inappropriate, and have been >taken offline. (You may have noticed that the poster was banned from >the list just after these posts hit the wire.) > >Now that we've dispensed with possible libel issues, let's talk fact. > >Just to be clear: You are Pano Kroko, the same person who started >seattlewireless.com, correct? > >I am compelled to wonder about the legitimacy of the actions of >seattlewireless.com. For example, your site is confusingly named in a >similar manner to seattlewireless.net, which has been around about two >years longer than the .com version. Archive.org certainly bears that >out: > >http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://seattlewireless.com >http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://seattlewireless.net > >And from conversations I've had with Matt Westervelt and Ken Caruso >(seattlewireless.net's founders), this situation has never been >adequately resolved. I understand that the name "Seattle Wireless" is >sufficiently generic that it can't be trademarked. I wonder, what >business reasons led you to believe that this would make a good name >for your aspiring wirleless company? Is it just a coincidence that it >has the same name as the completely unrelated seattlewireless.net site? > >I also notice that your site hosts node map graphics that appear to be >copied from various other community wireless groups, as well as >nodedb.com. For example, take a look at your Portland map, complete >with the little red "X marks the spot" logo from nodedb.com (on the >seattlewireless.com main page) and compare it to this: > >http://www.nodedb.com/unitedstates/or/portland/view.php?nodeid=142 > >Interesting how the X matches exactly, isn't it? I can only assume you >got permission from nodedb.com to use their image. And remove their >logo. I've taken the liberty of cc:'ing support at nodedb.com just to be >sure I've got the facts straight. > >And the foregoing facts notwithstanding, you are currently taking >credit card payments for what you claim to be a nationwide wireless >network that you built, correct? > >I can't help but shake the feeling that you are abusing the reputation >of legitimate community wireless networking efforts in an attempt to >build a business of questionable legitimacy. Please point out any >incorrect assumptions or observations I have made. > >--Rob Flickenger >NoCat Network > >On Nov 7, 2003, at 6:37 PM, Seattle Wireless, Inc. wrote: > >> Dear NoCat.Net Moderator or Webmaster, >> >> We have recently learned of the posting of libelous content of which >> you are hosting on your servers. This content is false, and has >> already been proven, by witnesses, to be damaging to our company's >> reputation. (The content can be found via the URLs below.) Seattle >> Wireless, Inc. understands that you are not responsible for the >> posting of libelous content however, you are responsible for >> perpetuating its existence on into the future. We ask that you remove >> this offending material immediately or we will have no recourse but to >> file a defamation suit. You have 3 days to remove the libelous >> content. Thank you for your understanding. >> >> URLs: >> http://lists.nocat.net/pipermail/nocatnet/2003-March/001706.html >> http://lists.nocat.net/pipermail/nocatnet/2003-March/001707.html >> http://lists.nocat.net/pipermail/nocatnet/2003-March/001708.html >> http://lists.nocat.net/pipermail/nocatnet/2003-March/001709.html >> http://lists.nocat.net/pipermail/nocatnet/2003-March/001710.html >> >> (the above is included >> on:http://lists.nocat.net/pipermail/nocatnet/2003-March.txt) +? >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Seattle Wireless Inc. >> PO Box 75418, Seattle WA 98125 >> ATTN: legal dept. >> http://seattlewireless.com >> info at seattlewireless.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >Talk mailing list >Talk at seattlewireless.net >http://seattlewireless.net/mailman/listinfo/talk > > "The Net treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore "Government is like a fire, useful in the fireplace, but if it gets out of its place, it will consume everything you own." - George Washington _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list at tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list