From kaze0010 at umn.edu Tue Aug 9 15:13:19 2005 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Tue Aug 9 15:18:16 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Wireless Cities... Community Context Conference, Oct 6-7, 2005 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20050809151319.04071b00@127.0.0.1> This meeting looks like it may be of interest to TCWUG members...it will be held in Walter Library on the U of MN East Bank campus. X-From_: events@dtc.umn.edu Tue Aug 9 14:54:40 2005 Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 14:54:29 -0500 (CDT) From: DTC Events To: DTC Mailing List:; Subject: Wireless Cities... Community Context Conference, Oct 6-7, 2005 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dtc.umn.edu Wireless Cities... Community Context Conference October 6-7, 2005 University of Minnesota Digital Watershed and the University of Minnesota Digital Technology Center and the Institute for New Media Studies, are hosting the "Wireless Cities . . . Community Contest Conference." The purpose of the conference, which will be held October 6 - 7 at the Digital Technology Center in Walter Library on the University of Minnesota campus, is to provide a forum for the exchange of information and ideas on community-centered services delivered over municipal wireless networks. Municipal wireless networks are being planned and implemented across the nation and the world. This conference will address the use of wireless networks to improve existing community services and innovate new collaborative content for local communities. It will act as a catalyst to engage government, industry and community organizations on how such content would impact public collaboration in the arts, humanities, journalism, education, social networks and other value-added community programming. The tentative schedule is as follows: Day 1 - Thursday, October 6, 2005 8:00 - 8:45 Registration and continental breakfast 8:45 Opening Remarks: Andrew Odlyzko, Digital Technology Center 9:00 - 10:30 Plenary Session 1 - Wireless State of the Cities 10:45 - 12:15 Plenary Session 2 - Legal and Legislative Issues 12:15 to 1:30 PM - Lunch buffet served in DTC Charles Ribaudo, Jambo Networks 1:30 - 3:00 Plenary Session 3 - Bridging the Digital Divide 3:15 - 4:45 Plenary Session 4 - Wireless Arts and Culture 6:00 to 8:00 Reception/Banquet - at the Campus Club Costis Toregas, PTI.org, keynote speaker Douglas Geers, U of M performance Day 2 - Friday, October 7, 2005 8:30 - 9 Continental breakfast 9:00 - 10:30 Plenary Session 5 - Social Networks 10:45 - 12:15 Plenary Session 6 - Workgroups Group 1 - State of the Cities Group 2 - Legal and Legislative Group 3 - Bridging the Digital Divide Group 4 - Wireless Arts and Culture Group 5 - Social Networks 12:15 - 1:30 Lunch buffet at DTC 1:30 - 3:00 Plenary Session 7 - Reports and Summary 3:00 - 3:30 Closing remarks, Arthur Harkins, U of M Futurist Registration information and up-to-date conference information is available at: http://www.dtc.umn.edu/seminars/symposia/wireless2005 Additional information is also available by contacting the conference administrator at wccc@dtc.umn.edu. From kaze0010 at umn.edu Thu Aug 11 15:07:41 2005 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Thu Aug 11 15:09:22 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] FCC: 3650 mhz, last chance to counter the Motorola et.al. attempt to lock up 3650 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20050811150741.0197e7a0@127.0.0.1> Also here: http://www.saschameinrath.com/2005aug09voice_your_support_for_public_access_ to_the_public_airwaves_aka_help_save_the_3650-3700mhz_band_deadline_is_augus t_11th >Hi All, > >The last chance to file on the petition for reconsideration on the 3650 >filing is the 11th. That's Thursday. > >WISPA filed against licensing any or all of the band and against dropping >the contention based mechanism last week. > >This week there have been about a dozen people that have also filed in >support of the WISPA stance. They all seem to be from the public service >community or education establishment. > >Are we not going to have a single WISP file anything on this issue? This >spectrum is almost exactly what we've asked the FCC to do for us for years >and we've got almost nothing to say about it when a few companies are >suggesting that the band be licensed (all or in part)????? > >http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/comsrch_v2.cgi >Enter 04-151 in the upper left hand box to read what others have said (over >200 comments on the overall issue at this time). > >To file your own comment: >http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi >Just fill in the blanks. Don't forget to sign your name and don't forget to >tell a little bit about your company. > >laters, >Marlon >(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales >(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services >42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! >64.146.146.12 (net meeting) >www.odessaoffice.com/wireless >www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > >-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Thu Aug 11 16:57:30 2005 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Thu Aug 11 16:58:49 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] FCC: 3650 mhz, last chance to counter the Motorola et.al. attempt to lock up 3650 In-Reply-To: <17092247.1123791127967.JavaMail.root@sniper35> Message-ID: I made a comment, and I hope lots of others do too. Mike Ellsworth The WiMAX Guys, LLC StratVantage Consulting, LLC 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiMAXGuys.com Get a free one-hour wireless network evaluation. Forward this message to freebie@theWiMAXGuys.com "The freedom which we enjoy in our government extends also to our ordinary life. There, far from exercising a jealous surveillance over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our neighbor for doing what he likes." Pericles, 431 B.C. -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Haudy Kazemi Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 3:08 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [tcwug-list] FCC: 3650 mhz, last chance to counter the Motorola et.al. attempt to lock up 3650 Also here: http://www.saschameinrath.com/2005aug09voice_your_support_for_public_access_ to_the_public_airwaves_aka_help_save_the_3650-3700mhz_band_deadline_is_augus t_11th >Hi All, > >The last chance to file on the petition for reconsideration on the 3650 >filing is the 11th. That's Thursday. > >WISPA filed against licensing any or all of the band and against dropping >the contention based mechanism last week. > >This week there have been about a dozen people that have also filed in >support of the WISPA stance. They all seem to be from the public service >community or education establishment. > >Are we not going to have a single WISP file anything on this issue? This >spectrum is almost exactly what we've asked the FCC to do for us for years >and we've got almost nothing to say about it when a few companies are >suggesting that the band be licensed (all or in part)????? > >http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/comsrch_v2.cgi >Enter 04-151 in the upper left hand box to read what others have said (over >200 comments on the overall issue at this time). > >To file your own comment: >http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi >Just fill in the blanks. Don't forget to sign your name and don't forget to >tell a little bit about your company. > >laters, >Marlon >(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales >(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services >42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! >64.146.146.12 (net meeting) >www.odessaoffice.com/wireless >www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > >-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tcwug-list@tcwug.org http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From adam at whee.org Tue Aug 23 13:24:16 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Tue Aug 23 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC Message-ID: Okay, I know this list is all about spreading the joy and love of wireless, but... I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of the WRT54GC. I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some other Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one does not, I just have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. From ben at nerp.net Tue Aug 23 14:28:21 2005 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Aug 23 14:29:39 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 unfortunately, this is one of the non-broadcom based boxes, and you can't even run OpenWRT on it. it also looks like the wifi is soldered to the mainboard, so you can't just remove it. - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > Okay, I know this list is all about spreading the joy and love of wireless, > but... > > I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of the WRT54GC. > > I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some other > Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one does not, I just > have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDC3jXfYg2asD844oRAorKAJ4z6yEuqLpVIlZxoRKkj0HoXkmHEQCgqZHr CfQpZFJTyzZc83Apl0s5JvE= =q43N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From adam at whee.org Tue Aug 23 14:31:06 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Tue Aug 23 14:47:39 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Should I trust the filtering code enough to permit only specific MAC's, and then not enter any in the list? (Am thinking no...) I assume even if I turn off SSID broadcast, it will still be detectable in some way? Wrap it in tinfoil? On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > unfortunately, this is one of the non-broadcom based boxes, and you can't > even run OpenWRT on it. > > it also looks like the wifi is soldered to the mainboard, so you can't just > remove it. > > > - -ben > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > >> Okay, I know this list is all about spreading the joy and love of >> wireless, but... >> >> I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of the >> WRT54GC. >> >> I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some other >> Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one does not, I >> just have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFDC3jXfYg2asD844oRAorKAJ4z6yEuqLpVIlZxoRKkj0HoXkmHEQCgqZHr > CfQpZFJTyzZc83Apl0s5JvE= > =q43N > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From scheides at iexposure.com Tue Aug 23 15:05:34 2005 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Tue Aug 23 15:05:39 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200508231505.34585.scheides@iexposure.com> On Tuesday 23 August 2005 02:31 pm, Adam Maloney wrote: > Should I trust the filtering code enough to permit only specific MAC's, > and then not enter any in the list? (Am thinking no...) Good idea! > > I assume even if I turn off SSID broadcast, it will still be detectable > in some way? > > Wrap it in tinfoil? Remove the antennas, maybe? -scheides > > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Ben Kochie wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > unfortunately, this is one of the non-broadcom based boxes, and you can't > > even run OpenWRT on it. > > > > it also looks like the wifi is soldered to the mainboard, so you can't > > just remove it. > > > > > > - -ben > > > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > > > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > >> Okay, I know this list is all about spreading the joy and love of > >> wireless, but... > >> > >> I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of the > >> WRT54GC. > >> > >> I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some other > >> Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one does not, I > >> just have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFDC3jXfYg2asD844oRAorKAJ4z6yEuqLpVIlZxoRKkj0HoXkmHEQCgqZHr > > CfQpZFJTyzZc83Apl0s5JvE= > > =q43N > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota tcwug-list@tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -- Chris Scheidecker Associate Systems Administrator cscheidecker@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com 612.676.1946 x33 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ From adam at whee.org Tue Aug 23 15:08:27 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Tue Aug 23 15:28:24 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, arif mamdani wrote: > um... what about selling it on Ebay and buying a device that actually does > what you want it to do? Because I have possibly dozens of these throughout the country. I only found out last week that the helldesk has been recommending these little beauties to some of our remote sites. So while Bruno is slapping around the support staff in the back room, I went and picked one up to try and see if it was a salvagable solution. I'm also absolutely thrilled to see that Linksys is still shipping wireless routers with the wireless on and wide-open by default. At this point, with the footprint I probably have, I might as well put them up in the rest of our offices and become a free nationwide wireless ISP. From ben at nerp.net Tue Aug 23 17:26:41 2005 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Aug 23 17:31:10 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ok, so the best thing you could do is this: Make a dummy-load. Put a 1/4 watt 50 ohm resistor on a connector an SMA (probably reverse polarity) That should basicaly kill any RF comming out of the device. Or you could just solder 50 ohm resistors across the connector. - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, arif mamdani wrote: > >> um... what about selling it on Ebay and buying a device that actually does >> what you want it to do? > > Because I have possibly dozens of these throughout the country. I only found > out last week that the helldesk has been recommending these little beauties > to some of our remote sites. So while Bruno is slapping around the support > staff in the back room, I went and picked one up to try and see if it was a > salvagable solution. > > I'm also absolutely thrilled to see that Linksys is still shipping wireless > routers with the wireless on and wide-open by default. > > At this point, with the footprint I probably have, I might as well put them > up in the rest of our offices and become a free nationwide wireless ISP. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDC6KjfYg2asD844oRAkkJAKCqAFVcjW8etZ0GakTWd8PXf+P9vACgkAyF lrg9OIOp8kHQhBtA4TFv/qY= =aftz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From poptix at poptix.net Tue Aug 23 20:23:55 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Aug 23 20:25:42 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> Message-ID: <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 15:08 -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > I'm also absolutely thrilled to see that Linksys is still shipping > wireless routers with the wireless on and wide-open by default. As opposed to a default encryption key that makes everyone feel safe. From adam at whee.org Wed Aug 24 07:44:20 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed Aug 24 08:01:50 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 15:08 -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > >> I'm also absolutely thrilled to see that Linksys is still shipping >> wireless routers with the wireless on and wide-open by default. > > As opposed to a default encryption key that makes everyone feel safe. The issue of knowingly shipping products with a default insecure configuration has been hashed to death on many lists, but you must have missed them all. I'll bring you up to speed... Why not ship it with wireless disabled, so at least it's not a gaping security hole the minute it's plugged in? From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Aug 24 08:46:23 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Wed Aug 24 08:46:59 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Aug 24, 2005, at 7:44 AM, Adam Maloney wrote: > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > >> On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 15:08 -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >>> I'm also absolutely thrilled to see that Linksys is still shipping >>> wireless routers with the wireless on and wide-open by default. >>> >> >> As opposed to a default encryption key that makes everyone feel safe. >> > > The issue of knowingly shipping products with a default insecure > configuration has been hashed to death on many lists, but you must > have missed them all. I'll bring you up to speed... > > Why not ship it with wireless disabled, so at least it's not a > gaping security hole the minute it's plugged in? or, fix the real problem. which imho is, poor user interfaces and setup processes. as engineers we spend a lot of time on the mechanics of making the elements talk to each other but we don't bother to standardize the setup process and make it as seamless as possible for the average consumer. one would think that manufacturers would get the point that the setup process is far too painful and there's likely a killing to be made in the delivery of systems that are easy to setup and "secure". the flip side being, as long as consumers continue to make cost the differentiator when they're at best buy/circuit city manufacturers will continue to get away with this sort of thing. i don't know of any consumer grade wireless manufacturer that provides a reasonable default configuration that's easy for the non-technically inclined to setup. i'd love for someone to point one out to me. { snipped - misc. signatures } long time readers of this list may find some level of irony in my comments here. ;-) -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From mfraase at farces.com Wed Aug 24 09:30:49 2005 From: mfraase at farces.com (Michael Fraase) Date: Wed Aug 24 09:30:59 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless disabled? Secured, yes. Disabled, no. Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial task to make the device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to define a WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it won't run until this key is defined. -- Michael Fraase mfraase@farces.com www.michaelfraase.com > -----Original Message----- > Why not ship it with wireless disabled, so at least it's not > a gaping security hole the minute it's plugged in? From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Aug 24 09:42:42 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Wed Aug 24 09:43:49 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> References: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Michael Fraase wrote: > Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless disabled? > Secured, yes. Disabled, no. > > Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial task to make the > device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to define a > WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it won't run until this > key is defined. Am I missing something glaringly obvious, or isn't that technically disabling the wireless (and everything else)? Jima From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Aug 24 09:49:42 2005 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Wed Aug 24 09:50:59 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> References: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> Message-ID: <430C8906.7090104@ringworld.org> Linksys already has a semi-automated wpa-psk setup that gets around user-defined weak wpa-psk keys. http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article126-page1.php downside: it requires all of the same vendors crap, which is completely useless. For the most part it looks like a pile of software shims to get it going. Michael Fraase wrote: > Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless disabled? > Secured, yes. Disabled, no. > > Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial task to make the > device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to define a > WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it won't run until this > key is defined. > > -- > Michael Fraase > mfraase@farces.com > www.michaelfraase.com > > >>-----Original Message----- >>Why not ship it with wireless disabled, so at least it's not >>a gaping security hole the minute it's plugged in? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -- Scott Dier From titlerw at mindspring.com Wed Aug 24 09:53:49 2005 From: titlerw at mindspring.com (William Titler) Date: Wed Aug 24 09:53:52 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: PLEASE KILL THIS THREAD! It is dead already, stop filling out inboxes. Bill -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Jima Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:43 AM To: Michael Fraase Cc: 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' Subject: RE: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Michael Fraase wrote: > Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless disabled? > Secured, yes. Disabled, no. > > Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial task to make the > device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to define a > WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it won't run until this > key is defined. Am I missing something glaringly obvious, or isn't that technically disabling the wireless (and everything else)? Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tcwug-list@tcwug.org http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mfraase at farces.com Wed Aug 24 09:57:42 2005 From: mfraase at farces.com (Michael Fraase) Date: Wed Aug 24 09:57:46 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050824145743.B5565106A9@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> Not from the user's perspective. She bought a wireless router presumably for wireless connectivity. Of course, this violates one of the primary user interface guidelines about the user always being in control, but in this case I think it's warranted. -- Michael Fraase mfraase@farces.com www.michaelfraase.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Jima [mailto:jima@beer.tclug.org] > Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:43 AM > To: Michael Fraase > Cc: 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' > Subject: RE: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC > > On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Michael Fraase wrote: > > Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless > disabled? > > Secured, yes. Disabled, no. > > > > Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial > task to make > > the device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to > > define a > > WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it > won't run until > > this key is defined. > > Am I missing something glaringly obvious, or isn't that > technically disabling the wireless (and everything else)? > > Jima From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Aug 24 10:34:25 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Wed Aug 24 10:35:51 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> References: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> Message-ID: On Aug 24, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Michael Fraase wrote: > Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless disabled? > Secured, yes. Disabled, no. > > Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial task to > make the > device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to > define a > WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it won't run > until this > key is defined. this is only really half of the problem. it's the half near and dear to adam's heart right now but in the general case the real problem is making the end stations happily talk to the AP with the appropriate flavor of crypto. it's this poor interoperability that has most vendors de-tuning their products to the least common denominator of, well, wide open. {snipped - misc. signatures} >> -----Original Message----- >> Why not ship it with wireless disabled, so at least it's not >> a gaping security hole the minute it's plugged in? > {snipped - misc. signatures} -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From poptix at poptix.net Wed Aug 24 12:55:23 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed Aug 24 13:09:52 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> Message-ID: <1124906123.8379.28.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 07:44 -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > The issue of knowingly shipping products with a default insecure > configuration has been hashed to death on many lists, but you must have > missed them all. I'll bring you up to speed... Thanks. > > Why not ship it with wireless disabled, so at least it's not a gaping > security hole the minute it's plugged in? Because it's not a gaping security hole. Joe Clueless just went from having their Windows PC wired directly into their cable modem to putting it behind a NAT device, if the wireless is unencrypted that just means that someone can drive up and (attempt) to exploit the bug of the week on his Windows PC. Are you sharing files across your network without password protection? Failing to secure your systems because you think they're safe behind NAT? I think you're concerned as an ISP who doesn't want customers sharing their Internet connection accidently (or purposely =), that's fine, but don't try to claim it's for their security. I have plenty of devices that cannot do much more than 64 or 128 bit WEP, shipping a wireless AP in such a way that it forces me to choose some advanced encryption (that I do not wish to use) will cause whatever company does it to lose my business. If you need security you should not be relying on the wireless encryption method of the week, you should be using a VPN, SSL, etc. What kind of network administrator allows "the helpdesk" to recommend a consumer wireless device like this to a "remote site". If you don't have someone with half a clue managing the remote site it's probably not important enough to cry about. Set an encryption key, turn down the power, take off the antennas, etc. If giving anyone nearby a direct connection to your LAN is that much of an issue then you should have mac address ACL's on your switch ports that prevent people from plugging in random devices. All that said, when we install wireless APs at customers homes I have instructed our installers to setup the best encryption available between the PC and the AP being installed, you would be surprised at the number of customers who DO NOT want it enabled for one reason or another. From adam at whee.org Wed Aug 24 13:32:15 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed Aug 24 13:49:53 2005 Subject: OT Re: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <1124906123.8379.28.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> <1124906123.8379.28.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Because it's not a gaping security hole. So, your home or business wireless network is open to all then? And Sendmail shouldn't have disabled promiscuous relay by default starting in 8.9 either, right? Since you couldn't root the box, it's not really a problem... > unencrypted that just means that someone can drive up and (attempt) to > exploit the bug of the week on his Windows PC. Exploiting the PC is only half the concern. What about random people using your Internet access? The originating IP is yours. There's no physical wire to tie back to some dude driving through your neighborhood sending death threats to the pres. Or saturating your WAN connection. Or sharing copyrighted files. > I think you're concerned as an ISP who doesn't want customers sharing > their Internet connection accidently (or purposely =), that's fine, but > don't try to claim it's for their security. Wow, an ad hominem attack. My argument is wrong because I work for an ISP. Except, I've been out of the ISP industry for well over a year... > What kind of network administrator allows "the helpdesk" to recommend a > consumer wireless device like this to a "remote site". If you don't have Another personal attack. Did you even read what I said? I did not allow the helpdesk to do anything. You have no idea of the size, scope, or even the nature of my business. You're just fanning your ego by attacking everyone else. Like you do on TCLUG. Like you do on NANOG. You haven't contributed anything useful to this thread, so why do you keep talking? Give it a rest and kindly STFU unless you have a way to disable wireless on this router, per my initial post. From andyw at pobox.com Wed Aug 24 17:16:20 2005 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Wed Aug 24 17:17:55 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: ; from adam@whee.org on Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 01:24:16PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20050824171619.G18110@florence.linkmargin.com> Adam Maloney wrote: > Okay, I know this list is all about spreading the joy and love of > wireless, but... > > I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of the > WRT54GC. > > I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some other > Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one does not, I > just have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. Bummer. If you cannot disable the wireless port, and physically replacing these isn't an option, can you at least configure them so that the wireless port is useless ? Ideas like blocking *all* mac addresses from the wireless port, configuring encryption etc spring to mind. It's not like a hacker would have any traffic to snoop. It looks like this unit has an internal antenna, plus an optional (RP-SMA) antenna jack under a flap in the top of the unit. I can't see a way to force it to use that jack, and it obviously has an internal antenna too, so adding a dummy load on that is probably a waste of time. I think neutering the wireless port is probably the best you can do, if I understand your situation and the device correctly. i did like the idea of putting them in a metal box of some sort, though - if you're open to lateral thinking :) -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From kaze0010 at umn.edu Thu Aug 25 10:20:06 2005 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Thu Aug 25 10:24:06 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <20050824171619.G18110@florence.linkmargin.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20050825102006.03762f98@127.0.0.1> Hello, >> I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of the >> WRT54GC. >> >> I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some other >> Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one does not, I >> just have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. > >I think neutering the wireless port is probably the best you >can do, if I understand your situation and the device correctly. > >i did like the idea of putting them in a metal box of some sort, >though - if you're open to lateral thinking :) Try enclosing the antenna in a metal shield, whether aluminum foil, metal window screen mesh, an empty soda can, or an empty tin soup/tomato sauce can. Compare the signal strengths using Windows XP's wifi meter (crude), or the finer Kismet or Netstumbler meters both before and after the shielding to see how effective it is. You should also enable the securest wireless options supported (possibly WPA or WPA2, also MAC filtering). Prices on eBay for used WRT54GC units are about $30+shipping. Used WRT54G units are about the same price, but have removeable antennas, 3rd party firmware options, and their wireless units can be disabled. If you sold the WRT54GC's and bought WRT54G's the dollars would be nearly a wash. Time and coordination of the swaps is another issue entirely. I suggest replacing the WRT54GC units with WRT54G's, as the best and cleanest long-term solution, although not the easiest solution. -Haudy Kazemi From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Aug 26 09:24:22 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Fri Aug 26 09:26:20 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] administravia: o'reilly and assoc. user group newsletter References: Message-ID: <9EB83FB2-8769-45C3-865E-5502F3928B23@botwerks.org> ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders August 25, 2005 ================================================================ -User Group Newsletters Now Available Online -Promotional Material Available -Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review Books are Available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. 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He starts with the basics: reducing noise, getting a good microphone, proper microphone technique, show prep, and format, and closes with tips that deal with improving the content of your show. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/08/10/improvingpodcasts.html ***Get Cooking With Photoshop and CSS With Photoshop, CSS, and a little creativity, you can enjoy a feast of design options. Corrie shows how easy it is to tweak the graphic ingredients of your designs to produce completely different results. She cooks up three tasty design styles in Photoshop, then shows, step-by-step, how to reproduce them using CSS. http://www.sitepoint.com/article/get-cooking-photoshop-css ***Mobile Video: Working with MPEG-4 Clips on Mobile Phones MPEG-4 files can be struggle to work with, but the format is so good it's worth taming. In this article, Douglas Dixon uses the QuickTime Player to view and deconstruct clips created by several camera phones. He examines the details of the MPEG-4 format for mobile phones--called 3GPP--and works around some of the idiosyncrasies of different devices that create slightly different formats. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/08/24/mpeg4.html --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***MAKE: Audio--Natalie Jeremijenko MAKE: Audio rolls out a new type of show: A MAKER profile of Natalie Jeremijenko, who builds toxic-sensing robot dogs from discarded toys, as read by Dale Dougherty, MAKE publisher. This is an enhanced podcast; it will play audio *and* show the actual pages of MAKE Magazine from volume 02 when you click on them. We hope to do more of these--please let us know what you think. Don't forget to add the MAKE feed to iTunes 4.9. Click this link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast? id=74069835 and click SUBSCRIBE. ***How to Get RSS Feeds on Your Watch Phil Torrone show's us how to get MSN filter content or any news via RSS on a SPOT watch: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/08/how_to_get_msn.html#more You can also get MAKE shows via ODEO! http://odeo.com/channel/1178/view MAKE Show Archive: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/make_podcast/ ***For more information on MAKE, go to: http://www.makezine.com/ ================================================ From Your Peers ================================================ ***Charleston Code Camp,Charleston, SC--September 17 Learn Today, Compile Tonight! Interested in learning something new, without being bored to tears by an endless, 8 hour parade of Powerpoints? At Charleston Code Camp, you'll see real code that does real stuff, on a variety of topics such as Enterprise Development, Mobile Development, ASP.NET and more...and the best part is, after you're done, you'll be able to download everything at home and keep using it. For more information: http://gcnug.org/codecamp ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From poptix at poptix.net Mon Aug 29 17:40:29 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Aug 29 17:41:01 2005 Subject: OT Re: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> <1124846635.5799.12.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> <1124906123.8379.28.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> Message-ID: <1125355229.2847.33.camel@littleboy.poptix.net> On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 13:32 -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > Because it's not a gaping security hole. > > So, your home or business wireless network is open to all then? And > Sendmail shouldn't have disabled promiscuous relay by default starting in > 8.9 either, right? Since you couldn't root the box, it's not really a > problem... > There's a certain barrier to entry there when they have to be outside of your physical location. You shouldn't be letting unscanned/unauthenticated email out of your network anyway. > > unencrypted that just means that someone can drive up and (attempt) to > > exploit the bug of the week on his Windows PC. > > Exploiting the PC is only half the concern. What about random people > using your Internet access? The originating IP is yours. There's no > physical wire to tie back to some dude driving through your neighborhood > sending death threats to the pres. Or saturating your WAN connection. Or > sharing copyrighted files. See above. > > > I think you're concerned as an ISP who doesn't want customers sharing > > their Internet connection accidently (or purposely =), that's fine, but > > don't try to claim it's for their security. > > Wow, an ad hominem attack. My argument is wrong because I work for an > ISP. Except, I've been out of the ISP industry for well over a year... > > What kind of network administrator allows "the helpdesk" to recommend a > > consumer wireless device like this to a "remote site". If you don't have > > Another personal attack. Did you even read what I said? I did not allow > the helpdesk to do anything. You have no idea of the size, scope, or even > the nature of my business. You're just fanning your ego by attacking > everyone else. Like you do on TCLUG. Like you do on NANOG. You haven't > contributed anything useful to this thread, so why do you keep talking? > [poptix@momentum(~)]: dict 'ad hominem' >From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]: ad hominem adj : appealing to personal considerations (rather than to fact or reason); "ad hominem arguments" I believe you started the personal attacks, I was trying to better understand the root problem (security vs. public access vs. RF interference) When troubleshooting with people who are not terribly clued in it's always best to find the root problem and work from there. You would be amazed at the number of people who bring their car to a mechanic because it's out of gas. From arif at mamdani.org Tue Aug 23 14:57:37 2005 From: arif at mamdani.org (arif mamdani) Date: Sat Sep 17 20:05:52 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1FC470BA-70E9-4D03-9B73-B8A838D85D26@mamdani.org> um... what about selling it on Ebay and buying a device that actually does what you want it to do? arif On Aug 23, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Adam Maloney wrote: > Should I trust the filtering code enough to permit only specific > MAC's, and then not enter any in the list? (Am thinking no...) > > I assume even if I turn off SSID broadcast, it will still be > detectable in some way? > > Wrap it in tinfoil? > > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Ben Kochie wrote: > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> unfortunately, this is one of the non-broadcom based boxes, and >> you can't even run OpenWRT on it. >> >> it also looks like the wifi is soldered to the mainboard, so you >> can't just remove it. >> >> >> - -ben >> >> "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." >> >> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >>> Okay, I know this list is all about spreading the joy and love of >>> wireless, but... >>> I need a way to completely disable the wireless functionality of >>> the WRT54GC. >>> I found a thread on-line reviewing these, and it sounds like some >>> other Linksys models have a wireless mode of "Disable" This one >>> does not, I just have Mixed, G Only, and B Only. >>> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iD8DBQFDC3jXfYg2asD844oRAorKAJ4z6yEuqLpVIlZxoRKkj0HoXkmHEQCgqZHr >> CfQpZFJTyzZc83Apl0s5JvE= >> =q43N >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > From josh at joshwelch.com Wed Aug 24 09:39:48 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Sat Sep 17 20:05:55 2005 Subject: [tcwug-list] Disable wireless on WRT54GC In-Reply-To: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> References: <20050824143051.94C08106E6@smtpout-1.iphouse.net> Message-ID: <430C85E0.5090902@joshwelch.com> Michael Fraase wrote: > Why would a vendor ship a wireless router with the wireless disabled? > Secured, yes. Disabled, no. > > Seems to me, admittedly a non-coder, a relatively trivial task to make the > device boot into a web screen that prompts the administrator to define a > WPA/WPA2 key when it's first plugged in. Make it so it won't run until this > key is defined. > A vendor is not going to do anything that increases the likelyhood of having their product returned to Best Buy/Circuit City/Pick Vendor by a user hollering "this dang thing just won't work". This includes shipping a secured unit and/or a unit with the wireless disabled. The best I think we could hope for would be an interface that would be fairly easy to navigate and some shiny brochure that tells the user, in fluent userese, how to setup the access point securely. That might get %10 of users to secure their access points, assuming they want to. Josh