Re: CF: RE: Classes and Races

[Hwei Sheng TEOH <hsteoh@cs.toronto.edu>]

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, dragonm wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hwei Sheng TEOH
> To: crossfire mailing list
> Sent: 9/8/99 8:15 PM
> Subject: RE: Classes and Races, was Re: CF: Alternate proposal:  MARK the
> power  crystals
> 
> <snip>
> 
> About the existing wraith/quetzalcoatl race/class, I think that things
> could be improved. For example, we should have different starting maps for
> these classes, that fit them better. For example, a wraith may start in an
> undead town or something, and a beholder (which would be an extremely
> interesting class to play if it's done) might start in some "beholder town"
> with items and stuff that befits beholders. After all, why would a human
> shopkeeper regard a wraith customer just as any other customer? Also,
> starting maps can be tailored for each of these special "monster" classes
> that add some "monster culture". This may actually add to the re-playability
> of the game, since it would be a very different experience playing a
> "monster" class rather than a humanoid class.
> ----------------
> You do realize you're quoting almost verbatim from the EverQuest design
> document, right?  :)  Everquest just might BE the Ultima killer the
> designers were hoping for.  Everybody on this list is generating big chunks
> of the EverQuest design seemingly without realizing it.  I guess there is a
> significant demand for those features.
[snip]

If the feature is good, I don't see any reason for not including it, just for
the sake of being "different". :-)

> This has advantages and disadvantages.  The disadvantage is the Me-Too
> Syndrome.  We sound like the EverQuest Wannabe League, if you'd like to be
> impolite.  The Open Source world has a long track-record of this style of
> design, so it's not exactly tragic, but there's a sort of stigma there when
> it comes to new people not as familiar with The Way Things Are.  Something
> to bear in mind.

True... I have to admit that personally I'm not that much into RPGs (CF being
the exception :-) so I wouldn't know if another game already has some feature
I happened to think of. But then again, if something is good, why not have it?
:-)

> The advantage is, if somebody proposes a feature that already exists in
> EverQuest, we have instant feedback on how well the proposal works, without
> having to implement anything ourselves.
> 
> Having said that, the multiple start towns for multiple races thing works
> quite well.  If you start as an Ogre in EverQuest, you start in the Ogre
> town, in the heart of Ogre territory.  Each race has a sort of territory on
> the continent(s), and interesting things happen where territories meet.
> 
> I think EverQuest took that to extremes.  They're actually enforcing racial
> hatreds in their implementation: guards in Ogre town will kill on sight any
> human who makes it into town.  I disliked that myself, since it severely
> restricts some significant role playing avenues, but if we go this route, it
> seems we'll likely do the same.  We already have gods with enemy races with
> enormous attack bonuses against those races, and more than likely,
> race-oriented towns would be dominated by those gods.  As I said, I don't
> much care for it, but it seems we're well down the road already.  :/

Hmm, I still like the idea of a player developing a "fame" or "reputation" so
that certain towns of the opposite race/religion/whatever may still be
visitable (the citizens will probably regard you a little lower than usual,
and sell things at higher prices/be not as friendly, etc., but not as extreme
as outright trying to kill you). Of course, there may also be towns/citadels
where they just *don't want you* -- those places may be hostile to the player
if he tries to venture beyond the "culturally permissible bounds".

For example, I don't see why a high-level dwarf with a good reputation in
general, couldn't visit an Ogre Town -- he'd just be regarded very
suspiciously by guards and townfolk, and they'd probably charge an incredible
amount of money for something cheap, etc.. And whereas a player who plays a
race friendly to ogres may be quickly "forgiven" for a mistake like bumping
into a guard, an elf would be immediately regarded as an enemy as soon as he
makes a single mistake, and the guards would kick him out.

Rather than being too extreme, I think this would make the game *very*
interesting. For example, you'd have to think of some way to get the Golden
Key from the Ogre King in order to complete a quest, without provoking the
city guards so that they'd locked the doors on you, or killing the guards so
that the Ogre King refuses to tell you where he put his key.



T

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