RE: CF: Long term experimental ideas

[dragonm <dragonm@leech.org>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Hwei Sheng TEOH
To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no
Sent: 9/14/99 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: CF: Long term experimental ideas

<snip>

It will make the dungeon designers' job harder if we decide to do
that... I'm afraid what will happen is that mapmakers will just completely
ignore the hidey holes and place generators inside the dungeon rooms
directly. I don't know how many people will actually be interested to go
through the trouble of creating safe "hiding areas" for all kinds of player
races, when they're trying to create some quest.
----------------
Maybe what was a single tile generator becomes a multi-tile conglomoration
that guarantees the generator isn't visible and that the species it
generates has at least SOME hole to hide in.  Then it's up to the mapmaker
to make more involved tunnels accessible only to that race if he wants to.
I'm sure it could be worked out.
----------------

Hmm, so far I don't remember seeing any response to my ideas about
player reputation, etc.. What I had in mind with that was that players
playing a race opposite to a particular city should still be able to visit
it, and the citizens' attitude would be slightly friendlier if the player
has a good reputation in general. Their actual friendliness would still be
biased by the fact that the player's race is one they dislike. This should
still allow for players of different races to cooperate. (Haven't we all
read fantasy stories where the heroes met friendly creatures of usually
enemy races? Even the current Scorn has a Friendly Giant's tower. We
definitely should allow such exceptions to the "normal" racial oppositions.)
----------------
So I'll respond.  Good idea.  Let's do it.  :)  'cause you're right, we have
read the fantasy stories that featured it and they were some of the better
ones.  Having the opportunity to live it sounds good to me.
----------------
<snip>

Hmm, this may make things hard to implement... unless there's a sensible
way the NPC's can be "re-educated" when a player takes over a wizard's
position in a dungeon.
----------------
Changing specifics like the name and maybe major characteristics, if the NPC
actually says anything about those, is easy.  The server knows all of those
items already, so it's a simple matter of doing a lookup and doing some
substitutions into a template dialog.  More subtle changes, a wizard might
have to type in himself.  See comments below for some specifics.
----------------
<snip>

Hmm, if we do things this way, we're basically allowing minor
differences from the basic/original dungeon map (which is much more
reasonable). This way, perhaps even placing of monsters can be restricted --
only monsters of certain races live in that dungeon, so the wizard can only
use them, perhaps summoning a handful of other special monsters, but no more
than that.
----------------
I wouldn't say that.  In theory, a dungeon could be entirely reworked.
However, it'd take a significant amount of time and effort on the part of
the Wizard, and the changes would be gradual enough that other players in
the world could adjust without trauma.  Certainly restricting the presence
of certain races in a dungeon is an option.  And things like if a Greater
Demon is present, an Electric Dragon will refuse to live in the dungeon is
also an option.  The most powerful creatures would also be the most touchy,
with races on each other's slaying lists being especially unwilling to
cohabitate.  I don't think it should be impossible to substitute an Electric
Dragon for a Greater Demon if the Wizard has the power and wants to, though.
----------------
<snip>

This will be rather difficult to implement... currently, maps are
related to each other only via "exits". Mark did mention something about
layered maps, but I don't know if we're actually going to have true layering
(in the sense that digging underneath a wall could make it collapse,
altering potentially several maps at the same time). Also, this may
permanently "cripple" the dungeon and make it useless for future players.
----------------
Heh.  Some details like that one in particular would exist only if the maps
were converted to a coherent world, rather than a series of exits.  In some
respects it's an improvement because it increases realism.  Or more to the
point, it allows a greater suspension of disbelief.  In other respects, map
makers have expressed a dislike for the idea of having to work within the
constraints of a more "real" world.  They like those goofy teleporting
exits.  That specific example may not ever be relevant, but you get the
general idea.
----------------

One thought about all of this -- how does the wizard actually go about
*building* all this stuff and placing all these monsters? I personally
think it's silly to suddenly transform the player's window into "wizard
mode" with editing commands, etc., upon becoming a wizard. There should be a
way to administrate a dungeon that integrates into normal gameplay smoothly.
----------------
I agree entirely.  Even though you're a Wizard, I think you should still be
_playing_, not fooling around in some distorted version of CrossEdit.  An
idea has already been proposed that would go a long ways to fix this, among
other things.  That idea is to significantly enhance the dialog capabilities
of NPCs.  This extends to not just humanoid NPCs but all of the races,
including for instance Greater Demons.  So making changes to your dungeon
would involve a combination of casting spells, talking to "monsters" and
talking to construction workers, of whatever species.  And of course, any
one of those characters might be a player, in which case players could
directly participate in dungeon modifications.  This opens the door for all
sorts of chicanery.  An evil sort of player might attempt to sabatoge the
construction efforts of some "good" Wizard, and vice versa.  Or spy out the
results of that effort by gaining access to the maintenance tunnels.  And of
course if we allow that sort of thing, we need to allow some mechanism for
the Wizard to figure out what's going on.  This kind of thing allows for
more HUMAN interaction (nevermind the possibility that the neither the
Wizard character nor the construction worker character may be of even
humanoid species).  Human interaction is what role-playing is all about, so
opportunities to enhance it should be taken advantage of.

DM
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